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Old 04-25-2012, 11:03 PM
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Default correct poker protocol

7 stud: i was heads up against one other player and was dealt a pair on 5th street, hand is unimportant i'm more interested in what is the correct ruling for this type of situation.

anyways, i reach for my chips thinking of betting but decides to check at the last second, the guy behinds me had already thrown his chips in out of turn as a call as he assumes i will bet. it was pointed out either before i checked or after i cannot remember that he was betting out of turn and he took his chips back, then when i checked, he decided to check also.

another player not involved in the hand cried foul, he argued the bet from the guy behind me stood even if he he "intended" to call and he bet out of order since chips crossed the betting line. floor was called over and ruled the bet indeed stood even though both of us intended on checking.

was this the correct ruling?
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:10 PM
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This might vary from card room to card room. I have generally seen it ruled that when someone bets out of turn the bet stands unless the action in front of him changes.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:08 PM
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Yeah, it varies from card room to card room. At Parx in Bensalem PA, the house rule just recently changed that bets out of turn are binding because of complaints about angle shooting.

The most blatant example I ever encountered there, there were two players at the opposite end of the table I couldn't see well because I was in the 2 seat and they were in the 8 and 9 (9 seat tables there), they hadn't acted yet but seat 1 checked and I checked. After being told by the dealer 8 and 9 hadn't acted yet, after they checked, seat 1 then bet, knowing that my hand was weak because his out of turn check induced me to check.

Normally I'd have raised a stink but this player was a mega-fish (this was 15-30 limit and the guy would have been a mega-fish even at 2-4) so I let it go. The fish was also steamed at me because his turned flush with something like T3 s00ted got cracked when the board paired for my flopped set, so that's probably why he bet into me, which is a small price to pay when someone voluntarily calls 30 cold with T3 s00ted.
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Old 04-26-2012, 11:18 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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I would say any legitimate card room would count this as a bet. I'm sure there are some where it's not, but generally unless action has changed in front the out-of-turn action stands.
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Old 04-27-2012, 01:28 AM
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With so many new cardrooms opening in certain areas, it's pretty much standard that they'd take a year or so to figure out proper protocol. More days than not when I'm in a PA cardroom I either experience or overhear a basic situation that confuses the floor. Last night at a 2-5 game, someone pulled back his blind and tossed out a green, which led to a 5 minute discussion about whether the single oversized chip rule applies there, where the floor never really made a ruling, which was followed up by a twenty minute long conference between the floormen about what the proper ruling should be, climaxing in one of the duals declaring "good thing it's time for me to go home!"
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:27 AM
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i've lived in bensalem for 1 year or so, on street road in fact awhile back. had i known they're going to be casinos nearby i might've never left lol, i've been meaning to ask: how are the stud games (many? action? type) in philly casinos? it would be a quicker drive for me then to ac, 20/40 range all the way up 75/150?
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:49 AM
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Stud is pretty much non-existent in the Philadelphia casinos. I've never seen a straight stud game go at Harrah's Chester or Parx. At Parx, the only games that go regularly are a 6-12 OE and sometimes a 10-20 OE. There's also some 300-600 mix game that goes, but that's higher than I play and I can't recall if there's any stud in the mix. Actually, there was a guy at one of my hold'em tables the other day complaining about how he hates hold'em and wished 20-40 stud would go. AFAIK the only stud options are Taj and Borgata.

For mid-limit poker in general in PA, Chester's only limit games are low-limit HE, so as far as games that go regularly you're limited to 15-30 and 30-60 HE at Parx. I've seen 50-100 and some other higher limit games sporadically. The 15-30 can be soft, but the one problem (and this is true most places now) is that NLHE has killed most limit-holdem games other than the lowest limits, since the people buying in for $300-500ish almost all want to play NLHE. So there's nothing between 4-8 and 15-30, which makes it tougher for a 4-8 fish to make the jump all the way up to 15-30 if he/she runs good. They were spreading 8-16 for a while but I haven't seen it go in a long time.

Someone has a website that tracks the various games at Parx and when they go, but since 2+2 is down I can't find the link.
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:13 PM
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Correction to my previous post--I stopped by Harrah's Chester today because I was in the neighborhood and 20-40 stud started around 7 or 8pm. I don't go there often but I do check their game list on bravolivepoker.com, and I've never seen that before. There's a tournament series going on so perhaps that had something to do with it, but they had no other limit games larger than a 5-10 O8 game that I believe had a full kill. (Forgot to mention that one, which goes sometimes) Oddly enough they had 4-8, 3-6, and 2-4 Hold'em going. I usually don't see 4-8 on their list, so I guess they had to start that for the people who wanted something bigger than 3-6.

If you don't use it, most of the east coast casinos are on bravolivepoker.com, and the lists tend to be real time unless there's an outage. You need to sign in to one of various accounts to use it, so if you don't have one just set up a gmail account or something.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:43 PM
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just an additional footnote: at foxwoods: bets/checks out of turn are NOT considered binding, angle shooters pile on!

also, at foxwoods: if there's a bet and a call on the river, the loser can muck his hand without showing even if it's explicitly requested to be shown by other players in the pot. collusion city!
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:22 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trixtrix View Post
also, at foxwoods: if there's a bet and a call on the river, the loser can muck his hand without showing even if it's explicitly requested to be shown by other players in the pot. collusion city!
Isn't that true basically anywhere? Maybe if you put up a stink, but I've had plenty of spots where I was bluff-catching and forced the other person to either show or muck, but I wasn't aware I could force them to show.

Also I think it's pretty standard in cash games to not even have to show your winning hand when HU and the initiator mucks- I do believe you will be forced to show your hand if requested by other players at the table usually, though.
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