Roughing the Punter

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  #1  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:43 PM
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Default PLO Hand

Game is 7-handed 20/$40 PLO. Hero is OTB with KcQcJh7h. Stacks are:

SB: Huge
BB: $4000
UTG: $6000
UTG+1: $7800
MP: $14,000
CO: $2800
BU: $5500 (Hero)

SB is a very strong, aggressive player, a HU wizard. I assume BB is a winner by his demeanor and style, but I haven't played with him before. UTG and UTG+1 are fish who routinely stick it in bad, MP is a TAG who is a huge winner in the game, CO is a nit.

UTG straddles to $80. UTG+1 calls, MP calls, CO folds, I call, SB calls, BB calls, UTG checks.

Flop ($480):

Ts 9d 4s

SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $400, MP calls, I call, SB calls, BB calls, UTG raises to $1600, UTG+1 calls, MP calls.

Hero? I like a call, but I'm not really sure about it.
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:42 AM
Subdivisions Subdivisions is offline
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Pretty sweet wrap, but you obv have to to hit AND dodge the full and flush. But at those odds, it's pretty much an easy call IMO.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Subdivisions View Post
Pretty sweet wrap, but you obv have to to hit AND dodge the full and flush. But at those odds, it's pretty much an easy call IMO.
Yeah. My main concern is what happens if I call and then either the SB or BB raise and people start getting it in. I imagine I have enough equity in most circumstances to go with it at that point, but I'm not sure it's appropriate to get to that point. But, yeah, I guess I still like a call overall.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:50 PM
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More I think about it, I'm not do sure that repotting isn't your best move after all here. Potentially gets out some draws, including those that result in pot splitting for you. Once/if you've called the flop, you're kind of committed all of the way anyway IMO, so may as well pop it.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Subdivisions View Post
More I think about it, I'm not do sure that repotting isn't your best move after all here. Potentially gets out some draws, including those that result in pot splitting for you. Once/if you've called the flop, you're kind of committed all of the way anyway IMO, so may as well pop it.
If I get it in against a random NFD and a set and everyone else goes away, I'm looking at 20% equity. That's probably not enough. I suspect my fold equity against the raiser here is bupkis, and NFD is very much in a lot of these guys' ranges. If I get it in against two sets and a NFD or something like a set, a NFD, and some guy with a mediocre combo draw, my equity stays about the same, but with a bigger pot and some dead money. I could be wrong about these ranges and my FE, but that's my intuition on it; if I somehow did get it in against just one guy with a set, then I'm obviously in great shape. But overall, potting seems ambitious.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:54 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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I'm not much of a PLO player but I would agree potting seems to be the wrong play. You need it to complete your draw and brick out and you want to be up against multiple people in that case. Plus if the turn brings the flush or pairs the board you can still get away from it, and when you get there on the turn you get to get the rest in ahead.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:57 PM
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The way the action had gone, there's gotta be another guy with a very similar/identical draw to yours. I'm just saying that once/if you've decided to call the raise, you're likely committed the rest of the way, esp if there's a repop from one of the blinds. So why not get some of your potential splits out of there.

Pretty fascinating hand. You can make a pretty strong argument for folding, calling or raising tbh.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by WarDekar View Post
I'm not much of a PLO player but I would agree potting seems to be the wrong play. You need it to complete your draw and brick out and you want to be up against multiple people in that case. Plus if the turn brings the flush or pairs the board you can still get away from it, and when you get there on the turn you get to get the rest in ahead.
Sort of. Someone else could also hit the turn but have something else to go along with it. We'd obviously still be getting it in with great equity, but the lack of anything beyond the wrap does diminish the value of a call (or raise).
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:04 PM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Even if you're up against a similar wrap it's very unlikely it's bare- I highly doubt you're folding anyone out that you would've split with that would've otherwise stayed in.

Fold>Pot IMO
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WarDekar View Post
I highly doubt you're folding anyone out that you would've split with that would've otherwise stayed in.

If a repot is that easy of a call at a table of mostly good players with potentially the same draw, that pretty much answers the query.

But I don't believe that assumption to be the case.
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